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Should we be disgusted by artificial CP or other ways pedophiles like me find sexual satisfaction? Trigger warning:: Discussion of sex between adults and children, and some of the qualities I find attractive in children.
Disgust has been a common theme on this blog. For example, when I [first introduced the idea of artificial child pornography](https://livingwithpedophilia.wordpress.com/2020/09/30/is-artificial-child-pornography-a-good-outlet), I wrote about it:
All this same material exists, but focused on children. No real kids are involved, just drawings or computer renders or stories from someone’s imagination. I won’t lie or sugarcoat it: if you’re not aroused by it, you’ll be disgusted by it. Like with real child pornography, some people have both reactions: they use it and simultaneously hate themselves for using it.
Using the word "disgust," though, was a writing strategy, not an expression of my own view. It was meant to prepare people for what they were reading—and to be realistic about what many people certainly would feel.
But what about feeling disgust? Should we be disgusted by artificial child pornography or the other ways pedophiles like me might find sexual satisfaction? Should my very attraction cause disgust? Should I myself be disgusted by it?
This post is going to be a little bit different from my usual. It's going to be a bit more searching, and have a bit less of a solid conclusion. I hope you stick around anyway.
Let's start just by thinking about what disgust is, and why it's helpful.
It's clear that disgust serves a real purpose among our emotions. The disgust we feel towards rotten food helps us avoid disease; disgust towards morally reprehensible acts (like beating children) or dangerous behaviors (like being sloppy drunk) helps to maintain societal standards.
On the other hand, disgust isn't purely inherent to us: it's driven by societal conditioning and norms. For example, eating insects feels gross to many in the US but is common in many parts of the world. The disgust we feel towards different parenting techniques is clearly driven by the norms of the time and place; "spare the rod and spoil the child" feels like a perfectly fine parenting strategy to some, while to others it sounds like child abuse.
To some extent, almost anything new or different provokes disgust. I remember being wary of sushi before I learned to love it. Kids think those of the other gender have "cooties"—in some sense, an expression of disgust.
And then there's sex. Adults might still find the idea of sex between their parents disgusting, although surely they think they're entitled to it; teens often think all older people having sex is gross! "Kink shaming" refers to shaming people for their sexual desires, such as an interest in role play or bondage or costumes; it too is often driven by disgust. TMI, or "too much information," is often used when people talk about their sex life, probably because it feels disgusting.
In other words, while disgust serves a clear purpose in keeping us safe and maintaining social cohesion, it's not a source of moral truth. What we view as disgusting depends on the time and place, how we were raised, and what society is like. If we want to think clearly about what is or isn't right, we need to go beyond our gut reactions.
Unfortunately, emotional reactions tend to guide our thoughts. We have mental shortcuts for a reason: people just don't have the capacity to rethink everything from first principles, and [if we try to operate without emotions, we stop making decisions at all](https://www.thecut.com/2016/06/how-only-using-logic-destroyed-a-man.html). (Much as I've always secretly wanted to live like Spock.) Disgust likely serves a important purpose in managing our behavior, so we can't just get rid of it. It has good parts and bad parts; we have to think through what we really believe.
Although disgust feels like a personal emotion, it has consequences for other people. In particular, the near-universal disgust people have for pedophiles affects everyone who is a pedophile. We see ourselves in the news all the time, and literally never in good ways.
The idea that our very selves are disgusting runs deep, and it affects all of us in ways big and small. We always know that our daily thoughts, and maybe even who we are, would repulse people. We have to keep them secret. Many of us end up hating ourselves.
I've seen this play out again and again. Many introductory posts on pedophile forums talk about the disgust they feel at themselves. People in online communities leave without warning, unable to handle the dissonance in their own minds. Self-hatred is common in the community, and the reaction to that self-hatred drives responses ranging from muted acceptance or belief that it's justified to those who fight against it and try to demonstrate pedophile pride.
There's someone I've roleplayed with several times. A friend of sorts. Keep in mind that this roleplay is entirely between consenting adults, and he plays in the role of the child. He finds himself irresistably drawn to it, roleplays until he orgasms, and then quits, disgusted with himself. He might disappear for a month or two, until he can't resist any longer and comes back. Lather, rinse, repeat. And he's far from the only one; the disappearing roleplay partner is a common story.
In fact, it even shows up in the jokes we make. A common joke I've heard in online chats is someone saying they're a "dirty pedo." Then, a few minutes later, after they take a shower: "Ok, I'm a clean pedo now."
The idea that our very desires make us disgusting runs through almost everything; for many pedophiles (although not all), it casts a pall over their lives.
Those feelings of disgust form a big, messy background swirl that underlie our experiences when we fantasize or masturbate.
When I was younger, I didn't like my attractions at all. I avoided fantasizing, because it felt to me like a display of weakness, as if my willpower wasn't strong enough to keep my desires tamped down. Eventually I set limits: I was allowed to masturbate at most once every two days. Each time, after I did it, I remember feeling awful, as if I'd failed somehow and demonstrated my weakness. I remember feeling, well, disgust at my actions and my fantasies.
Now, though, it's quite different. Fantasizing has become a pleasure. (This is the part where I try to warn you, "it may disgust you...") I know that I wouldn't want to act on my fantasies in real life, but in fantasy, it brings me joy. I can enjoy the world I imagine, and feel calm and happy after my release.
Does that bother you? Does it bother you that I'm not disgusted that I fantasize about children? It's a genuine question.
One of the most powerful ways for me to masturbate is while role playing over text with other adults. For them, it fulfills a need to play a young boy in a sexual situation; for me, it fulfills a need to play the adult man with that boy. (You might ask why someone would want to play the boy, and I hope to talk about it in a future post.) We craft a story and setting together, write as our characters, bring ourselves closer and closer to climax, and eventually, we both have our release. No real children are involved, just like when I use drawn images or computer renders, or write or read stories.
Moreover, when I role play, I come away more satisfied. I experienced something with someone else. I know that I drove another human being to pleasure; I know that for a moment, we shared something together. Sure, that shared experience would repulse many people, but to us it was beautiful and fun and an expression of something we both want but can never have. It brought us joy. It made us feel good.
If we both know we can never have that experience in real life, but we enjoy it together, is that so wrong? Again, that's a genuine question; I've considered it [for artwork](https://livingwithpedophilia.wordpress.com/2020/09/30/is-artificial-child-pornography-a-good-outlet/) as well.
My answer, with everything I know so far, is that it doesn't seem wrong. I think we are two adults finding pleasure together, and finding ways to pleasure each other together. Just as when I enjoy a fantasy, or when I look at artwork someone made, or anything else, I am enjoying my imagination and experiencing something my body needs. So long as it doesn't lead to any real kids getting hurt (and [I don't believe it does](https://livingwithpedophilia.wordpress.com/2020/11/08/the-data-what-impact-do-sexual-images-of-children-have-on-offending/)), I think I am experiencing something good.
But, like, c'mon. Really? Maybe you, reading this post, are not a pedophile. It would surely bother you to hear my discussions with others where we talk about the features in boys we find attractive. I feel like it's important to really face that disgust, so let me really push you here. If you were to read my conversations with others, you'd hear me talk about the body type I like in boys. (Skinny, but not so skinny their ribs are too prominent. About average.) The ages I like (about eight to twelve). The eye color, hair color, leg shape, the way they smile, and their smooth skin. Am I really saying that shouldn't bother you? If we're going to talk about disgust, I don't want to sugarcoat what you might want to be disgusted about! (Although, in all honesty, I am sugarcoating it. I'm not discussing what the artwork or stories might actually depict, which would go to a whole new level.)
This question is all over my blog. These are thoughts, but they depict something awful. How should we treat the difference between our thoughts, or our private conversations, and our actions? Do my thoughts make me bad or evil, or is it only actions that do that?
This is a very hard question for lots of pedophiles, and it was hard for me. My own opinion has shifted over time. Now, I'm not ashamed of the conversations I have. I have preferences like anyone else has preferences. I am careful about where I have them. I make sure I know who I'm talking with. I work to make sure no one is made uncomfortable, and to never encourage real actions. But the conversations? To me, they're a healthy and safe expression of my attraction.
Besides the sheer you are fantasizing about fucking kids aspect of this all, there's another reason you might be disgusted by my thoughts.
I remember being at a Mexican restaurant and eating fried insects for the first time. I was one of few people in my group who dared. I felt some strong disgust, but I overrode that disgust, knowing that many people ate insects and it was a new experience I wouldn't want to miss out on. I'm glad I did, and now I feel more open to eating insects in the future.
But listen to that. I felt more open to eating insects again. I have to admit, that sounds dangerous in the context of this blog post, doesn't it? Disgust feels like a wall. It keeps us from doing things. Maybe it keeps us from abusing children, and if we remove that wall of disgust, more children will get hurt. Disgust serves a useful purpose, and maybe your disgust is at the idea my fantasies will trend towards reality. Maybe the self-disgust pedophiles experience is important for preventing harm.
And yet I wonder. One the one hand, yes, being disgusted by one's thoughts might stop people from acting on them. On the other hand, if we apply disgust with a broad brush towards both fantasy and real child abuse, might it lead to conflating the two in dangerous ways? If we feel disgust over things that don't harm anyone, will that make the disgust for the real act less potent overall? Will people say, "well, I'm disgusting anyway, so I'm going to go ahead and do what I want?"
I've [argued before](https://livingwithpedophilia.wordpress.com/2020/11/08/the-data-what-impact-do-sexual-images-of-children-have-on-offending/) that fantasizing provides an important outlet that causes no harm. I think it's important that fantasizing and acting on one's fantasies are kept as morally distinct as possible. If actions that cause no harm are stigmatized, the stigma might lose its power altogether.
I would like to tell you now that you shouldn't be disgusted by non-offending pedophiles or their fantasies. If only it were that easy.
Sure, I can argue that equal disgust for both fantasies and reality dilutes the disgust for real child abuse. I can also tell you that disgust hurts people. And I can follow up by saying that there can be real, harmless joy in the fantasies that are shared between consenting adults.
But of course we don't know if disgust might help prevent child abuse. Just because evidence doesn't seem to point that way so far doesn't mean it won't. If it comes out that way, my outlook might change on the utility of disgust.
But forget that academic argument for a moment. Disgust is a really hard thing to change. If you're not a pedophile and you're reading this blog (thank you!), it feels very unlikely my argument can change your emotions toward me. Honestly, I understand the feelings of disgust, and I am at peace with them. While it's bittersweet for me to have someone comment on Quora that they're disgusted by my attractions but they know I didn't choose them so they support me, I still understand how hard that is for them. It's not a small leap, and I really appreciate it. Yes, it's a little bit backhanded, but it's also a true demonstration of someone thinking past their biases to really see my point of view. I am genuinely so grateful, whether you're disgusted or not.
And if you're a pedophile disgusted at yourself? If you're my role play partner who plays, enjoys themselves, and then disappears when they can't handle the emotions anymore? If you find yourself drawn to stories or artwork again and again, hating yourself every time but giving into your desires and then pulling away? If your disgust leads to self-hatred? You'd never hurt children, but you struggle with who you are? How can I hope to change such deep conditioning?
I can't, but I have to try. So if that applies to you, I don't think you deserve your disgust. I think you should be able to experience some joy and then go back to your life guilt-free, because you didn't hurt anyone. I want to tell you: "Maybe you should go easy on yourself. Maybe it's ok. Maybe your fantasizing is good, so long as it stays fantasy." Maybe it'll get through eventually.
So let me close on this. I wish I wasn't a pedophile, but I get joy from my sexual experiences. I find nothing wrong with fantasizing or role playing or looking at artwork; in fact, I'm proud of how I've handled myself.
Society pushes me to feel bad about myself, and for some time, I really did. But when I stopped to think about it, I realized that I don't believe that I'm disgusting because of how I was born. Being a pedophile is not good or bad: it's what you do with it that matters.
And for me? What I've done with it is positive, including my role plays and the fiction I write. It's brought a lot of others some joy and release, and leaves me with the energy to focus on my life and work.
You might feel disgust, and I don't fault you for it. However, I am happy with my joy, and I am proud of my life. That works for me.
You can find the original article, along with reader comments (and the opportunity to leave your own) at Leonard's blog. | |
